Mr. Gladden,

Not sure if our story is the kind you are looking for but here goes anyway…

My husband has been in the US Navy for 23+ years. We were more recently stationed in Hampton Roads, Virginia. We purchased a home in 2004 as a government 3/1 arm because we were told at the time that would be the only way we could afford a home because of VA limits at the time being $240,000. We were okay with the 3/1 because we figured we would re-fi before any rate reset. With the VA funding fee our loan was exactly $240,000. Less than 1 year later we learned from BANK 2 that we could get a home equity loan in which they would roll in a bill consolidation loan we had with them for around $35,000 and give us additional cash so that we could do some home improvements for a total of $80,000. With houses in our neighborhood selling at this time on the high end at $316,000 which is what BANK 2 based the loan amount on, we really didn’t think it was a big deal and since we were planning on this being our retirement home we figured we would be okay.

Last year my husband found out he would be unable to get a billet in the area and as such would have to transfer. Of course this was also around the time for a rate reset under the 3/1 government arm but it made no sense to try and do a re-fi if we were going to sell so obviously our rate did reset, it was only about $100 so it wasn’t that big a deal. The mortgage company changed it again recently another $100 more to offset what the market showed our new tax rate would be though. The transfer was scheduled for January of 2008. We put our house on the market in September of 2007 at $339,000 and dropped the price down to $325,000 which was our bottom line but we got no bites, not even a showing. We tried a FSBO and priced the house again at the bottom line to pay off both loans and realtor fees for the buyer, we still had no bites. Feedback from realtor friends said that a lot of realtors do not want to show FSBO’s and recommended we list again with a realtor. We did, at $307,900 which was obviously at a loss and during that time we had one showing and no contract.

My husband did his transfer in January as scheduled and left us behind, however our BAH changed to reflect his new duty station which is lower than the duty station where the house is. That coupled with the rate reset and the other $100 payment increase now had us about $600 short every month. Additionally we had to pay $300 per month for my husband to live with my parents at the new duty station which put us $900 per month down.

With no luck selling the house and us being tired of not being together as a family we decided to rent, that wasn’t easy either but in May did find renters however it is only a 5 month lease. So now my daughter and I are here with my hubby and we are living with my parents because even though we have renters the rent is not enough to pay our mortgage payment every month being shy about $800 and we are paying my parents $950 per month. We could potentially rent something but would only be able to afford it through October which is when the renters will move out of our home. At that point if we do rent it is only a matter of time before we start falling behind. Additionally this is also the time of year our rate will reset again. My parents don’t have a large home and they are having financial issues of their own because of the economy and the type of work my dad does…we are actually increasing their financial burden simply by taking baths and doing laundry. We have already been separated enough with deployments, underways, etc…why should we continue to be separated when we are on the downside of my husband’s enlistment?

We contacted our mortgage holders and they basically said there was no help for us because we have never been late on a payment. We talked to BANK 2 about selling the house for less than what we owe and taking a personal loan for the remainder but they call that a short sale whether we pay the money back or not which damages our credit. We cannot do a deed in lieu because of the second mortgage. We talked to BANK 2 about a re-fi but can’t do that because according to the market we now owe more than the home is worth and BANK 1 won’t do a re-fi for the same reason additionally with BANK 1 because we had the house up for sale and have 2 mortgages we can’t even talk re-fi with them for 6 months after the house has been off the market.

Despite all of the lenders, etc…saying contact, contact…we will help you avoid foreclosure enough is not being done because we have contacted them and none of them offer any viable options that don’t destroy our ability to be home owners in the future. We recently contacted the VA and left a message with our assigned counselor, it has been almost 2 weeks and we have not heard from him.

Granted, most people, including ourselves would look at our situation and say we put ourselves here and as such we should suffer the consequence of foreclosure. But we don't believe that...we could have never predicted the way the market has turned. About a month or so ago, I talked to my realtor friend and she did a CMA and told me if I were to list again that I would list at $288,000, that’s about $12,000 short of payoff plus realtor fees…today I talked to her and with a city assessment of $282,400 she tells me I would have to list at $272,000.

Again, this may not be what you are looking for necessarily but if something doesn’t give somewhere soon, we will be one of those statistics…we are fighting as hard as we can to keep that from happening. It seems to me the government is extending more help to the guy who worked at McDonald’s and bought a $400,000 house than those who truly need it.


Thanks

If there is any hope to bettering ours and other people's situation by sharing our situation, I'm more than willing to do so.

We were stationed at Ft. Meade, MD and since we were stabalized there for the duration of my husband's enlistment and had a new baby on the way we decided it was a good time to buy a house. The market was down and at the time didn't look to be going any lower at the time. Less than 1 year after buying our home we came down with orders for Monterey, CA.

With 3 months notice of our PCS we were in quite a tight spot. We found and hired a property management company and hoped that our house would have tenants soon. This was in January of 2008. Our house sat vacant until June 1 2008, all the while we were paying our $1420 mortgage in addition to $240 in utilities (to keep our pipes from freezing). While paying out $1680 a month to our vacant house, we were paying our BAH for the housing on base. After all our tax return dried up, we were counting on our tenant's rent to pay for our mortgage. No check arrived. Apparently our property management kept the 1st months check as their fee, without informing us. Then when we finally received our July check, it was for $350. Apparently they had deducted other funds without informing us. This has left us $62 short in paying our mortgage. Leaving us no money for food or gas.

My husband is an E-6 so we get paid decently, but with uncooperative property management companies and the idea of a $100,000 loss if we tried to sell our home we are really stuck between a rock and a hard place. I don't know if anything can be done but maybe if our concerns are seen they can be addressed.

Thanks, a little update on us…we have decided to move into a camper which will significantly lessen any rental obligation…this will allow us to continue making timely payments on the mortgage until we are able to sell. While this is not necessarily the desired solution it is nevertheless a solution that keeps us out of foreclosure.

I will continue to support your effort in any way I can, there are many families out there in worse shape than us. It is a bit disheartening to read some of the comments left on the story..it seems that some people believe that those of us in this situation are just asking for a free hand out.

I know for us, we were just looking for help from our lenders…did I tell you that when NFCU gave us the HE loan they did not base it on an appraisal, market value or the like…my husband simply told them what he thought our house was worth based on what houses were selling for in the neighborhood at the time…I questioned it but they NFCU said that was how it was done…hindsight really is 20/20…but I am trying to figure out where the hindsight should have been…on the greed of investors, lenders, brokers, flippers, etc…who have brought the market to its knees or on us for not questioning the financial institutions lending practices a little harder…who knows…

Additionally, I have read several articles which say that the VA stayed away from ARM loans but that is not true because that is what we have…a 3/1 VA backed arm…

BTW…here is the newest from Citi…evidently we have what is classified now as a “special loan” and the typical Citi rep who answers the phone is not allowed to talk to us about our loan…we must snail mail or fax a request to this department to get someone to talk to us…we have not ever been late…what the heck is up with that…a rhetorical question, I know…

We are willing to accept living in a camper and make any other additional sacrifice because at the end of the day that is accepting responsibility for our role but since the VA & NFCU, in my opinion, engaged in lax lending standards it seems to me they should be a little more willing to work with us. All we asked for was for the VA to help us get Citi to get us into a fixed rate and we can’t even get them (VA) to call us back and we talked to NFCU about a personal loan to offset the difference between what we owed and what we could sell for and of course they agree if we meet the credit criteria however they will report it on our credit as a short sale whether we pay it back or not…that is unfair and we have to ask ourselves if they are going to damage our credit either way why we should we worry about paying it back…you know what the answer is…responsibility… even though my hubby will likely lose his security clearance and once the short sale goes on our credit we will have a hard time renting, we will still pay the difference back…I hope all of the lenders, investors, etc…sleep well at night.

Again…THANKS for all you are doing…

To anyone else who has taken an interest in this issue...this forum is not getting enough attention and neither is some of the quick fixes...so many "upper entities" say there are not enough service members out there talking about this situation...please, PLEASE...the only way to change a policy is if enough of us get together and push for policy change...I know there are alot more people out there in this situation than I am reading here or have read about in other articles...GET THE WORD OUT!!!!!

I think that this whole situation is absolutely terrible and something needs to be done.
This all started in February 2007 when we put our home on the market, knowing we would eventually have to move. My husband then left to go to AZ for training in March and is still gone. We have two kids ages 4 and 1 and one on the way. We knew that we would need to move no later than September or October. I would love to stay in our home but family can only help out so much and if I cannot take call at my job, I technically no longer fit my position and they would have to hire someone else. I work full time at the hospital and take call and take care of our kids and am trying to sell our home by owner now beacuse we need to price our home more "aggressively" to sell. We did have a realtor, but had to sell by onwer to cut costs. We now have it listed for 259,900 and our mortgage is for 266,000, and this doesn't include buyers realtor fees. So either way we will never make out. My husband got his orders to Fort Campbell, KY and will have to report there in September.
I need to be with him and so do the kids before he deploys again and we aren't left with any reasonable options without ruining our really good credit. The government recruits these soldiers and expects them to just foreclose on their homes and not even think twice about it. We have never made a late pament on anything and it is just so horrible that any soldier has to worry about this instead of worrying about their families or even staying alive. So now our two options are for us to either do a Short Sale or a Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure, these both really affect our credit. This is just so unfair!!! Our husbands and wives put their lives on the line and can't even get the same benefits as other government employees whose jobs are just non-life threatening. The military continues to station us wherever and whenever they want us to............ then they should help us out with the situation that they have put us in. This is not right to put ANY military family through this, we have to go through enough physical and mental stress. I could just go on and on, but I really hope something is done real soon about all of this!

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to share.

Pamela,

We wish you and your family the best. Please take a few minutes to go to the web site below and print the pre written letter to you elected officials. With a few clicks of the mouse, you can also sign a petition that will be helpful for getting the attention of military non profits and other trade organizations.

www.moresam.net
Joe

Add our name to the masses. My husband is Navy. We purchased a home in NV, not at the top of our price range limit, with an extremely low interest rate, almost perfect credit, no other debt except school loans...all the things a responsible person would do. He was stationed to San Diego and here we are paying $2100 in rent (we are having to rent a townhome with only a patio just to save a few extra dollars on BAH to offset the mortgage), have rented out our home and still paying $1200 mo in mortgage payments.... that is over $3300 a month just for waking up in the morning. We have been frugal, responsible and educated homebuyers. We now cannot plan for our future, our kids future, because we are tied to a house we cannot sell. we don't qualify for a short sale (rental income is income and we are some how managing to make that payment to the mortgage company every month). It has been suggested that we let the renters leave and become delinquent on payments to qualify... but why should we have to ruin our credit, our dreams? Some people will remark, well you knew you would be leaving in a few years.... Yes, we did know that. We did not know, however, the market in our area would dive 30%, that we would not even be able to sell our home, or to rent it for a decent amount. Is it so wrong for a family to give so much of themselves to others, our country, and wanting to paint a wall your favorite color in a home you own, such a sin? My husband volunteered to serve his country. Our family, like thousands of other military families, give over and beyond of our time, our energy, our love and commitment to our country for the good of everyone. Why is it we are made to feel the token 10% military discount for select businesses is a "gift" and we should be satisfied with that, when our neighbors get sincere appreciation with benefits that actually matter to them and make a difference..... ie, buyouts?! I feel deceived. I feel like we have taken all of the right steps, and we are being swept under the carpet. I feel like the lure of military "being one big family" is one sided. the families do support one another, we watch each others children when our spouses are gone, we take care of each other when we are sick, we help each other in every form and fashion, but where is the help from our government? Who is watching out for us as a whole? Why are military families on welfare, food stamps, loosing their homes, going bankrupt, having their credit ruined? I wish there was a way to really portray the lack of consideration and welfare of our soldiers and their families. What keeps our family, like so many others getting up in the morning, is we love our country. We are proud to be Americans. Unfortunately, that is a double edged sword and our government knows it.
Thanks for the opportunity to vent.

Kara, Couldn't agree more! Specifically, we believe Military Families should get immediate tax credits for losses incurred. We also believe this problem should be resolved (long term) with a program for career families similar to that enjoyed by other federal employes. Specifically assistance with closing costs and as guaranteed buy out program.

We hope you will log in to www.moresam.net , print, sign, and mail pre-written letters to you elected officials. We hope you will also check the block to sign our on line petition to trade organizations and military friendly non-profits to make Congress and DOD act!

Please keep us updated. Joe Gladden, VR SAM

As I sit here and read this thread, somehow it's comforting to know that my family is not the only family in this situation. It's also painful.

My husband is in the Air Force and we bought brand new house in 2006, in the sizzling market of Central Arkansas. We did our research and thought we were making a great choice-- especially if the planned BRAC had gone through and all the Active Duty C-130 units would have landed at Little Rock bringing LOTS of personnel and families.

Little did we know not only would the BRAC change, but that in 2008, my husband would come home from his 3rd deployment, get back from his 2 week reconstitution leave to find out that he would be PCSing-- and soon. It took another eight weeks to find out exactly when he would be PCSing. Nonetheless, we'd already put the house on the market.

Six months later, our house has not sold.

Providentially, we put some money back to offset if we had to sell at a loss-- which with our listing price so low now, we would already be taking a substantial hit if it were to sell. Unfortunately, we have not even had one single offer on the home.

I have two young children, and being separated from my husband when he is not deployed is not an option for me. Thankfully, we will be able to squeeze by every month-- mortgage and all. That is, if when we get to his next duty station there is base housing available. He is TDY in NV right now and we are with him-- we will land at Cannon AFB -after- the massive influx of people that are coming with change of operations there. Another downside, rental housing is slim pickins at Cannon-- it seems the only way to get a 3 bed/2 bath house is to buy it. And that's something we cannot afford, nor would I buy a house after this experience-- especially in a market that has yet to hit bottom (after the final BRAC went through, the housing market at Cannon went through the roof-- along with new development).

We are weighing the possibility of renting our house out using a property manager, but I can't get over being emotionally attached to it (I am a clean-freak), and I can't view it as an "investment" especially if we are losing money on it (which we would be). Quite honestly, I would rather make the payments and have it sit empty than to make the payments while a tenant is failing to pay the rent and possibly ruining the inside. Also, the probablity that we would end up back in AR, thus moving us back into the home I love, is pretty low right now. Any recommendations there, I would appreciate.

Also, I'd like to change realtors, our contract with the current realtor is up at the end of this month. I'm having a hard time getting over not feeling a sense of loyalty-- even though I've been disappointed with his performance (he's not full time and never calls to report if there has been any traffic through the house-- we have to call him). Should I just get over myself?? And does anyone have experience with the ahrn movingstation.com service??

Anyway, thank you for reading my rant. I will print the letters to send to our Congressman and Representatives.

Thanks to everyone for sharing!! And thank you, Mr. Gladden, for caring and creating a plan. I hope and pray that the housing market goes on the up and that everyone hangs in there!!

Thanks for sharing your circumstances with us. They are becoming altogether too familiar and we believe it is a disgrace that Military Families must endure this.

First, thanks for taking the time to print / write your elected officials and please make sure you sign the on line petition (click of the mouse) as well. Then send the link to your friends / family and other like minded folks who believe we can do a better job at taking care of those who defend our country. By the way, as Congress contemplates a second round of "economic stimulus" doesn't it make sense to empower Military Families to "buy and sell" homes?

I would encourage you rent you home and to look for a solid Military Family that is likely to take great care of it. Homes that sit vacant are more likely to have issues than occupied homes. AHRN is an excellent, free site for Military Families and would encourage you to use it. I noted placed your home on our site, MORE SAM, and would also encourage you to consider www.militarybyowner.com. It isn't free, but it is reasonable and gets outstanding visibility worldwide by Military Families. I hope this helps. If you have questions, you can call me at 703 754-3036. We sincerely appreciate your husbands service and the sacrifices of our Military Families and will continue to do all that we can to get help! Hang in there. Joe Gladden

Thanks for sharing your circumstances with us. I have two recommendations that may help. First, recommend you contact The Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America, NACA. Here's the link. http://www.naca.com/index_main.jsp They may very well be able to assist you. Secondly, strongly recommend you go to our web site, www.moresam.net, and print the pre-written letters (you can add you comments) and send to every Congressman and Senator in your home state (names / addresses available). Ask you friends and family to do the same. There is also a button you can click to add your name to sign a petition with hundreds of others to send to powerful military non-profits and trade organizations to get them to weigh in with Congress on this issue. The ONLY way this will get resolved is when enough Military Families and supporters say enough is enough! We agree with you that it is absurd and disgraceful that our Military Families must alone bear the financial pain when PCSing in this down market! Hang in there and please check back and update us. Especially important that you let us know your experience with NACA. Thanks. Joe

Like many here...I'm in the same boat with orders overseas and due to leave next month. I knew when I was leaving and put my home on the market two years ago in anticipation of thie fallout, but just missed it....well that time has passed with no offers. I've also consistently lowered the price and nothing! So I weighed all of my options and thought what was best for me and family. After careful consideration and talks with financial experts on every avenue....we've decided to let the home go...that's right (forclosure). In anticipation of this and the fact that it takes no less than 6 months for this process to take place I stopped payments 6 months out from PCS and used that additional money to pay off other things (credit cards, loans, etc.). My philosophy is that it takes 7 years to clear this up on my credit report and I honestly believe this will occur before the housing market comes back to where I could only break even on the home. As for my clearance, I recently had my interview with the agent to re-establish my clearance. In the interview I fully disclosed my situation in this housing market as no fault of my own....in response I got an approved clearance for another 5 years. I was a little worried about it, but the interviewer put me at ease when she told me that 7 out of 10 people she interviews in our area are in the same boat. DoD is well aware of this and as long as you come clean and explain your situation, you should be okay. Now if you have other financial delinquencies other than your home....you might have a problem...but I don't and have always held a 750 credit score until now. Lucky for me though, I'll be able to hibernate overseas for 4 out of the 7 years to get my score back on track.

John, thanks for sharing your circumstances and we hope your strategy works. I am not surprised that the DIS investigators are seeing a lot of folks in this situation during clearance updates and certainly hope that the unusual circumstances are being taken into consideration.

I hope you will take a moment to help others by joining our campaign to force Congress to acknowledge and act on this issue by clicking on www.moresam.net
and asking them to get this disparity fixed.

Best of luck and please stay tuned.

Joe

Does anybody know if the modification places work
If it were possible to get my loan modified down to where it appraises to I might be able to afford the mortgage or might even be able to sell it for that price.
I have talked to several, some say they guarantee that either a percentage, loan amt., or something will be done or they will refund your money. This is costing around $2000 for them to get it done.
I have tried talking to my bank but of course they take
your complaint and 30 days get back to you etc.....
So if anyone knows if it will work I would like an opinion.
tks

Hi Rob,
Haven't had a need to use the modifications places you are referring to. Do be careful when choosing a place; I've read they are popping up everywhere and preying on homeowners who are desperate to get help. If you are working with a non-profit agency chances are they won't ask for any money down. You might want to try the HUD approved Housing Counseling Agencies. These agencies can provide advice on buying a home, renting, defaults, foreclosures, credit issues, and reverse mortgages. Good Luck.
Here is the link http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/hcc/hcs.cfm
Susan

Rob,
Agree with Susan that you should use caution putting money up front for debt relief promises. I have heard good things about NACA, a non-profit, national organization (link below). Would ask that you share your experience on our new thread about "debt relief" on this forum. Also, request you join VR SAM and hundreds of others in forcing Congress to act to assist military families at www.moresam.net. Please let us know how things go. Joe

http://www.naca.com/index_main.jsp

Same problem here. My house has been on the market for 4 months now without even one looker. We will into the same problem with renting also. We would have to lower our house rent to less than half of what we pay for mortgage to get any bites. I have a wife and 2 children and I returned from Iraq this year in April. Once I came down on orders in June I tried everything to get out of the orders because I only have 2 years until retirement and I knew my house would not sell since it is almost brand new and all kinds of newer houses going up around me. Right now I am TDY enroute to Washington state from Georgia. The family is at home in Georgia waiting for either the house to sell or next best is my retirement to come up here in 2 years. It will probably be more like 2-5 years because someone is going back to Iraq and you know what that does to retirement......

Hmm.... like all of you our situation is similar. Here we are in a bad financial position , husband commuting for the next 3 yrs (4 hrs a day) just to be with his family, cant sell our house, had a bad refi, re-enlisted and NO BONUS for his 6 YEAR REENLISTMENT undecided, AND he will lose his clearance if we forclose and not be able to do his job ... has anyone actually tried the buyout situation

Wow- I thought I was the only one in this situation.

My husband and I received active duty orders last May. We knew they were coming, so we had already setup the home we owned 6 months earlier on the market. No one even made an offer. We finally gave up after 10 months on the market. We just couldn't afford it anymore, so we set the home up for renting.

Worst of all, there were no property managers from where we moved. We were half-way across the country, and we had to become landlords. 3 months on the rental market- no takers!

We ended up renting to a distant family member who was an absolute NIGHTMARE. He never paid and for another 10 months, we paid the mortgage on top of rent. We rarely got a payment from our tenant but we were so desperate.

Then, we finally found a property manager. We evicted the bad tenant, and 1.5 months later we found a great tenant who pays every month.

We PCS'ed TWICE since then, and at the same time, we've done everything humanly possible to keep our mortgage afloat. My husband is a writer. He would take an insane amount of work to get paid enough money to pay our mortgage. Sometimes, even though I was training, I'd take writing jobs on the side for money. There was no way my pay covered the extra $700 mortgage and our $800 rent! So...there were many sleepless nights writing and worrying if we were going to make the mortgage payment. We wrote like crazy, but somehow...we made it through together. One day, we looked each other in the eyes and decided we wanted to keep our home, and we were going to make it happen no matter what.

I also had great anxiety over my clearance. In fact, that was one of my motivators to stay afloat in the mortgage because I wasn't finished with training and losing my clearance meant losing the chance to become a member of the career field I wanted.

My husband and I have been extremely lucky. Thankfully we are OK for now and current on the mortgage and I'm done with training. But if our tenants miss a payment....or a major repair is needed...I don't know what will happen. I'd have THOUSANDS more dollars now if we would have just sold the home. Unfortunately, now, we have no savings and are thousands in debt. But....we stayed alive, and we still have a home in the end.

I'm so happy to share my own story with this board, and also hear other people who are or were in the same position! I thought I was alone this whole time- like I was a "bad" person for not being able to pay my mortgage. Hearing your stories has helped me accept my own situation and try even harder to make things work.

Now all we're waiting for is a promotion to help ease the stress even more. smiley Everyone stay strong out there! And no matter what, things will work out in the end. After all, when all is said and done, you have each other, your family and your sense of honor. Never let any bank or selfish financier take that away from you.

Thanks for sharing your story with us. You've probably read this in numerous replies to folks who write to this forum but we don't think Military Families should be asked to make these sorts of sacrifices when PCSing. I would strongly encourage you to make your story and thoughts known to your elected officials. Thus far, DOD does not think there is a problem and while you have a relatively "success story" there are perhaps thousands who haven't had a good ending. Congress and DOD need to acknowledge and address this issue immediately. We have prewritten letters with names and addresses at www.moresam.net. Thanks for participating and thanks for your service and determination! Joe Gladden, Managing Partner, VR SAM

[color=Black]Same Boat!!! We're stationed at Lackland AFB, San Antonio, TX. Got orders in October to be out of here by end of January 2009 -Yah' 3 month notice! My husband has served for exactly 20 years just this November. And no we aren't looking to get out for job security reasons and just the love of being in the Air Force.
House is listed way under market value already, throwing things in with the home and not a single offer. Lots of great comments on our beautiful home, but that's not letting me put the SOLD sign up!
I contacted Citimortgage and they are "clueless" as how to help us. Not to mention that was the Mortgage specialist!! They told me to ask the military to help me! But they sure will be calling me if I can't make the February mortgage payment because we've PCS'd!!
We can't afford to stay while hubby leaves so we're determined to leave as a family.
The laws need to change and quick! HELP our families serving in the military with a buy out program!
We have welfare programs, drug rehab programs, convicted felons programs, drug programs, civilian programs and so much more but NOTHING to help our overlooked ACTIVE DUTY MILTARY FAMILIES!!!

my mls #748919 (will sell or Lease our beautiful home!)