I live in Washington State. Just spoke briefly to Dave.

Good info/advice on consulting a lawyer familar to laws in my state and how foreclosure can affect a security clearence to a non-military position, but still required to receive security clearences.

Thanks Dave fro the help!!

 NEW INFO

I have found some new information regarding this very sensitive issue. There is a new program out there just created by the President called HAFA. It is structured for people who owe more than their home is worth and it help them in short selling WITHOUT getting penalized for the offset in money. We have a friend who is also in the military whose wife got her PCS orders to move and they have a realator who specializes in short selling and has advised them that PCS orders qualify as a hardship and should not effect their security clearance. I will get and give more info as I get it. Chase has a link on their website regarding this.

Thanks for sending this.  I found it very helpful, especially the stat of 98% with financial problems still get the clearance. It is encouraging, but  I would only add that this article was Jul 2009, and is a media interpretation of the policy. 

Joe Gladden

 Actually I found it and here it is.

http://www.army.mil/-news/2009/07/08/24053-financial-problems-or-ptsd-need-not-affect-security-clearance/

 Can you please post the link of the CCF's you are referring to so that we all can read them.

Thanks

Just a quick note to acknowledge these posts on clearances.  I welcome and / all info on this as I don't have a good source to research.  Thanks. 

Joe

Adding my thanks for sharing the ariticle.  It certainly makes sense that DOD would have to evaluate each case individually.  Hopefully, the clearance issue will be just another bump in the road, to be resolved in their favor, for the good folks serving their country who are caught in this bad situation.

What continues to disturb me is that the underlying cause of these issues is not being addressed.  Military members are in a unqiue situation.  PCS moves are orders.  Ignoring orders have consequences under the UCMJ.  PCS, therefore, must be considered a legitimate condition of employment, and the employer, Uncle Sam, has an obligation to cover the expenses.  The really troubling aspect is that there is clearly precedent for this with other Federal Employees.  How then can we not address this issue for Military Families.  

We have continously advocated that Military Families should receive immediate tax credits for losses sustained due to losses on home sales, or losses associated with rentals, when caused by PCS "ORDERS!"    We have further advocated as long term solution whereby Career Military Families receive the same benefits enjoyed by other agencies in Federal Goverment. 

Having argued for this for almost four years, I am convinced this will not get attention until Military Families make their case to their elected officials.  Not once or twice, but until they get tired of hearing it.  I also believe they need to send the signals to their chain of command.  

Hang in there!

Joe Gladden

 Thank you for that article. I am going to try and get a hold of the person, Keith Kaufman, that was mentioned in that article to ask questions. What I am curious about now is the new Obama plan that starts on April 5 to help those who are up side down in their homes. We do qualify for that program. However, what they do is lower your mortgage to 31% of you income for 5 years and then it goes up 1 point every year after that until previous rate is met. But as of now with our incomes we can afford the payment, it is after we are relocated for active duty and our incomes go down drastically that concerns us. Can/Will we be able to file again for the same program and get better terms? Our friend whose wife is in the Air Force is getting stationed in Seattle in Sept. They also live in the Vegas valley. They are going to try and rent their house out as well until the market picks up, hopefully. Congress needs to act on this sensitive issue NOW. 

I am going through and have been through this b4 when u r denied a clearance dont panic but when u get your appeal choice do not write a letter to psab pick the DOHA judge you get to talk to a judge who will determine your character and if you made reasonable steps to prevent the situation. Here is a link to an artical that may make you feel better about this http://www.armytimes.com/money/fina...r_033108w/

I am very sorry to hear about your circumstances and understand the frustration.  You are doing the right thing by hammering away at your home state Congressmen and Senators.   While I get frustrated with the lack of response, I know that persistance pays off and sooner or later, they must consider the impact to our Military Families and the impact this must be having on Readiness.   I would encourage you to pick up the phone and call them as well.  

Though this always causes some discomfort, I believe that sooner or later folks are going to have to get the chain of command involved in this as well.  .

I am personally trying my best to get the National Association of Realtors involved in this issue and have also pushed for a Military Officers of America Resolution to make this one of their key legislative agenda.   I would encourage you to join MOAA (very inexpensive) and push them as well to support relief on this issue.  

Please keep us up to date on this forum as we do use it to substantiate the depth of the pain for our Military Families.

Joe Gladden

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Veteran Realty Serving America’s Military, Inc., VR SAM®,  is a partnership of retired Military Officers and Spouses, all Military Realtors, serving Military Families purchasing or selling homes in the Northern Virginia region including Fairfax County, Prince William County, Loudoun County, Fauquier County, Stafford County, Arlington, and Alexandria,  Many of our purchaser clients are PCSing to the Pentagon, NRO, Fort Belvoir, Fort Meyer, Anacostia, Bolling AFB, Andrews AFB, Navy Yard, Quantico, Coast Guard Headquarters, and other NOVA military installations.   VR SAM also serves a large number of defense contractor employees and Federal Employees from the FBI, NCIS, CIA and other agencies.  VR SAM is a leading advocate for the improvement of home owner benefits for Military Families.  Call VR SAM today to learn about our industry leading purchaser client credit and competitive listing programs and rates. 

VR SAM owns and operates this MORE SAM website and from .  MORE SAM™ is a free advertising site for homeowners and Realtors® who wish to expose their properties to the Military Housing Market.  MORE SAM™ also offers excellent advertising opportunities for Realtors® wishing to increase their visibility to Military Families moving to or from over 400 military installations worldwide.  

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 Hello Captain and et al,

We, my wife and I, are in the same situation as many other military families are regarding housing issues. We currently reside in Las Vegas, NV, the hardest hit and highest foreclosure rate in the U.S., and need help. My wife is in the Navy finishing up her degree then we will be leaving Nevada for her first duty assignment which will abviously not be here in Nevada. Our lender is Chase and servicing by EMC both of which are HORRIBLE in dealing with us. Our house is about $200K upside down which is about what the vast majority of the houses are at. We have tried a loan modification only to be told that "our situation is not of permanent nature". We have met with Consumer Credit Counseling Services and received no help. We called Chase, again, and was told that the military is going to have to do something. What about Chase and the other banks helping out?! It is very frustrating but we are determined to reach a solution.

We have and will be sending weekly letters to our congressmen regarding this very important issue that needs to be resolved NOW. 

Any suggestions and comments are welcome.

Sorry for the late response and to hear about your circumstances.  I wish I had an answer to this, but don't.  If someone else does, please jump in here. 

Your husband may be able to call the adjudicating authority to find out if the foreclosure is the issue.  That would be a good data point.

Many corporations do have relocation services that might assist with relocations.  They may not prevent losses, but may help mitiigate them.   Hope this is the case with Boeing.  Hope this helps.  Joe

What Makes VR SAM® Different?

“VR SAM® has been there” and experienced more Military moves than we care to remember.  But we do “remember” the “Good and Not so Good “Realtor experiences and we believe our Military Family clients deserve the Very Best!

We believe in the mission our Military Families support and are grateful for the opportunity to do our part with top quality relocation Realtor services.

VR SAM® offers our purchaser clients an industry leading credit from our commission at settlement. 

VR SAM® offers our seller clients extremely competitive listing rates, and listing options to save them even more money.

Contact VR SAM® today and experience the difference!    homesformilitary@vrsam.com   877 878-7726  

Veteran Realty Serving America’s Military, Inc., VR SAM®,  is a partnership of retired Military Officers and Spouses, all Military Realtors, serving Military Families purchasing or selling homes in the Northern Virginia region including Fairfax County, Prince William County, Loudoun County, Fauquier County, Stafford County, Arlington, and Alexandria,  Many of our purchaser clients are PCSing to the Pentagon, NRO, Fort Belvoir, Fort Meyer, Anacostia, Bolling AFB, Andrews AFB, Navy Yard, Quantico, Coast Guard Headquarters, and other NOVA military installations.   VR SAM also serves a large number of defense contractor employees and Federal Employees from the FBI, NCIS, CIA and other agencies.  VR SAM is a leading advocate for the improvement of home owner benefits for Military Families.  Call VR SAM today to learn about our industry leading purchaser client credit and competitive listing programs and rates. 

VR SAM owns and operates this MORE SAM website and from .  MORE SAM™ is a free advertising site for homeowners and Realtors® who wish to expose their properties to the Military Housing Market.  MORE SAM™ also offers excellent advertising opportunities for Realtors® wishing to increase their visibility to Military Families moving to or from over 400 military installations worldwide.  

VR SAM is affiliated with Jobin Realty Manassas, 9327 Main Street, Manassas, VA 20110.   703 365-9090

My husband is retired AF and employed with Boeing.  He holds a TS SSBI clearance and has an employee that has had a foreclosure.  He has been unable to get this individual clearance to get acess to the programs.  This has been ongoing for over a year now and this employee is in limbo waiting for a response from security and the AF.  This is also an important topic for us because we may be relocated and also are 150K + upside down on our home. 

I am hoping that is bad information and would be happy to have anyone else comment on this.  

If per chance it is valid, and I don't know if we can consider anything valid in the absence of written guidance, then this would be worthy of a letter writing campaign.  

Anyone else hear this? 

Joe

Thanks for the udpate.  You make an important point.  This entire issue affects officer and enlisted at every level.  

While we are trying to ferret out what the DOD intends to do w/ the clearance issue, I have to think that they will eventually publish some sort of guidelines. 

Updates when we get them.  Joe

Joe

UW/Joe,

Just an update regarding the security clearance question.

My husband's senior chief did talk with CO/XO yesterday. 

CO *and XO have been in same position!! (sorry to hear that yet it was a major relief for husband and I) but I believe it was BRAC related.  They both suggested the HAP website (funny, right?)  and said that they 'qualified'.  My husband received what they said through his senior chief, so I do not know whether they 'simply qualified'  for HAP actually used HAP benefits.. if they did (and with the community that we're in there was a base realignment). Can say that it was likely BRAC related for them.  Still they've been through the gutwrenching experience of trying to sell a house that won't sell and being faced with 2 housing expenses.. Senior Chief briefed them on all that we've done to date, so they are well aware that we're exhausting all viable options.

So his ENTIRE chain of command now from Chief to CO is completely supportive of the situation.

His Skipper said if the security clearance board does nothing regarding husband's clearance, he certainly will not do anything.  And, it sounds as though if it does come up when he's due for a 'reup' (well, we know realistically it will), he has strong advocates within in his entire chain of command to support retaining it.  At the least, he will be deployed when he's reupped and will at the least be able to get through the majority of this deployment in his new position.  If the board takes his clearance after that point, he said he won't feel that all of his training has been 'for nothing'.  (He just got out of an 18 month pipeline)

UW - hope that gives you some hope.  Unfortunately, I will not have a final answer regarding this until late 2010 but will continue to post updates.

FYI - If you read 'ripoffreport' and search Wells Fargo, it is enlightening.  Many horror stories regarding WF and loan mods (or in general) trying to work with their loss mitigation dept.  There are some stories where the borrower really doesn't have a case to complain.  But, then there are some where the borrowers did everything asked of them and were put through a complete run around (paperwork getting lost, told as we were to 'not make a payment' then foreclosed on while in the middle of a loan mod (which I don't believe they are supposed to be doing while a loan mod is being determined).  It's all really scary, to be honest.

Agree that this will probably not come up until the periodic review for the clearance.  We are trying to get more detail on how DOD will handle. 

For anyone considering a short sale, foreclosure or loan mod, I strongly encourage them to review the forum on this site moderated by Dave Bryan, Helping Hand Foundation.   He is very knowledgeable and reputable and has worked will with our clients.  He can discuss your situation and give you his judgment on the prospects.  

Joe

jr -

This was the situation that I spoke of with my husband's coworker.  The issue did not come about until he had to apply for his TS.. and likewise, it seems that my husband would not have an issue until he's do for a 'reup' on his clearance, which is late 2010.  

We researched the option to short sale.  Unfortunately, our tenants have too much time on their lease term and the state landlord-tenant law does offer them recourse if we take any voluntary action to sell our home.  If the home is foreclosed on, that is considered involuntary.  Our state's law does protect the tenant (which I think is great) where the purchaser must honor the lease agreement.  The downside for us is feedback from three Realtors - we're facing competition on a primarily foreclosure comparables.. meaning even as a short sale it's a shot in the dark to get an offer and if so, to get one with a buyer who is willing to allow our tenants nearly a year and half remaining in the home.  Both attorneys that we've spoken with said because of the tenant situation we can not deed in lieu the property after the short sale process, so we're faced with a breech of contract. It's a complicated web.. so we're in a position to either have a successful loan mod or foreclosure. 

For this reason, the hope is that security clearance boards understand the intracacies that military homeowners do not all fit into one box with resolution.  Some of us have gone through all of the appropriate protocols to find a resolve to still have the home foreclosed on.  Which, I desparately hope is not the position we will be in.

This brings the 'LOL's' or perhaps a queasy feeling in the pit of one's stomach. 

Particularly this part, 'With Military Mortgage Express, you can focus on your move— not your mortgage'  .

Directly from the Wells Fargo website:

https://www.wellsfargorelo.com/relo/military.wfm

Wells Fargo Home Mortgage can make buying and refinancing a home easier and less costly for military personnel, including those responding to PCS orders. Our exclusive Military Mortgage Express® program can make the home financing process faster and more convenient, and features a number of benefits: • Competitive Rates And Fees. PCS-related moves may be eligible for reduced fees   • PriorityBuyer® Status1. Written preapproval before house hunting begins   • Wells Fargo Closing GuaranteeSM. Wells Fargo Home Mortgage will close your loan on or before the initial closing date stated in your original purchase contract or we will refund your first month’s mortgage (principal and interest) payment2. With Military Mortgage Express, you can focus on your move— not your mortgage.

don't want to lead you astray, but several members in my squadron have either short-sold their house or even "walk away."  no one yet to my knowledge has been negatively impacted by this decision (i say this because they still work in the same scif that i do which requires TS).  nonetheless, still a dangerous game that should be given serious thought.  my opinion, a short sale is far less risky in terms of career impacts than simply "walking away."

FYI.. my husband's position also requires TS.  The '+' likely not with this command but TS is required.  It is very frustrating and we had the same school of thought 18 months ago that we would 'pay' the $1300/month to 'keep' his clearance. 

Regretfully, with 2 children and a spouse, my husband can not continue this trend.  He is set for his 7th deployment and while he's in the last years of his career - still has enough to go where it would absolutely stink to not do what he loves and is trained to do.  He also had personnel goals of promotion in the next year or two.  I've had many sleepless nights over this, thinking of the potential ways this house can affect us.. which include if he looses his clearance and we're restationed somewhere else (and THEN trying to find a new home to live in with a foreclosure under our belts). 

We're currently in an area that we love, close to family, and in a 3 year lease term in a perfect and affordable house that we got a deal on (former military pilot.. figures, right?)  Fortunately, for him.. he bought years before the downturn and what we pay gives him a positive cash flow and my husband knows how to do most of the repairs (so he just does them himself).. Our landlord has had -0- in repair costs since we moved in. 

UW,

My husband has the same clearance (TS+).  He has been transparent with his command even prior to our being officially in default.

We also have Wells.  The past 6+ months that I have been trying to get a 'work out' with them, has been frustrating (read prior posts).  

Here is where we are at with Wells:

*Submitted loan mod package as provided by non for profit 'Hope Now?' part of the Hope for Homeowners program.  Sent emails to the executive offices and tapped into a contact there.  I can send my contact to you through Joe if you want to email Joe your email address (Hope you don't mind, Joe, but would like to maintain anon).  

UW - have you also encountered Wells not wanting to recognize you as a 'primary homeowner'?  This has been our issue.  They want to fit us into the 'investor' category and have continually told me that we do not qualify for the loan mod programs.  Despite this, I still sent them a package with all docs.  I now have a Delegate for the state the property is located who has sent a letter of concern to Wells.  Coincidently (after 1 month since package was sent), I received a voice mail last night that Wells has 'received all of our docs'.  They are in process of preparing a modification agreement (according to the URL they gave me on my voice mail that I logged into).  

This does not mean that they will offer us the modification that we NEED to continue ownership of the property.  

Regarding your specific question on clearance.  My husband has a coworker who applied for his TS first round.  He had a short sale last year of a true 'investment' townhome.  He was *not transparant with the command.  I believe the latest is that he was denied but the command is trying to work with him. He's been pulled from his dept and stashed but is continuing to fly (not in the capacity he is trained for).  The command is trying to work with him but his scenario differs greatly from ours.  

I have a file full of documentation of our efforts and can only say that it will be a great loss to the military if they take my husband out of his current position over this.  We have otherwise excellent credit, have never been late for anything other than this mortgage. 

Background:

Transferred 18+ months ago.  VA 6% 30 yr fixed.  Home has depreciated $50K.  Tenant in property at less than PITI (all we could command).  Less than expenses and with consideration of repair costs, we average a monthly budget loss of $1300/month.  Wells put us on a forbearance agreement 2 months of that heightened our payments by an additional $300/mo. for 12 months which included nearly $1200 in 'fees'.  We would like to honor lease with our military tenants and  keep the home till they move out.  However, can not any longer at the current PITI.  (Down to one car, husband working 2nd job, I'm looking for work, minimal operating budget down here).  We've done all that we can and have completely wiped out TSP and regular savings.  Same boat as you.. we're tapped out over this..

Thanks!  Nice to know us P-3 guys were good for something other than eating box lunches  which by the way, weren't all that great!

Now understand the issue with the Feb 06 date and will have to go back and review the language as I didn't get that interpretation of it.  My understanding was that   1.   you had to buy before July 1, 2006,  2.  It had to be your primary residence, and 3. The move had to be incident to a PCS.   

Earlier I had a convsation with ACE that left me believing that you didn't necessarily have to live in the home for it to be your primary residence and I don't recall anything in the language about Feb 06.   Since there is much confusion on this and we still don't have DOD guidance, I am very hesitant to state anything definitively.  Hoping you are wrong, but simply can't be certain.   If you are correct, then it closes the window even further shutting out even more folks. 

If you get any clarification on this, please let me know. 

Hoping to get more info on the clearance issue soon.   

Joe

I am very sorry to hear about these circumstances. As you can see from the other posts, you have a lot of good company in this mess. By the way, I can assure you that there are a number of Admirals and other very senior officers in this situation. They probably just have more resources to eat the loss.

So this is restated in a public forum, Wells has a lousy reputation for responding to many of our clients and readers. I hope this comment is picked up by their folks who review blogs and do something about this issue! Shame on them!

I am a bit confused by the Feb 2006 date to which you refer. Where did it come from?

I would like to reask the question you ask of all of our readers.

CAN ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN THROUGH A CLEARANCE UPDATE AND WHO IS IN THIS PREDICAMENT OFFER ANY INSIGHT ON HOW CLEARANCES ARE BEING HANDLED ?

To be perfectly honest, we have been so involved in the other aspects of getting relief, we haven't had any concerted effort to get resolution on the clearance issue, but will try to bump that up a bit as we certainly understand the concern. I

I strongly encourage you to contact an expert on this issue. His name is Dave Bryan at the following contact info. dbryan@hhfnd.org (540) 219-1159 He has done excellent work for our clients and will evaluate your specific circumstances and offer his thoughts on a course of action.

Finally, here's my broken record! Call, write, then do it again...your home state Congressmen and Senators! Visit them personally if you can. DEMAND that they get this fixed. I firmly believe that the progress we are seeing are a direct result of these calls. Get your family and friends involved. You can find link for pre-written letters (and addresses) on the home page of this site.

Please stay tuned and keep us updated on your status and whatever you learn. Thanks. Joe

Good morning CAPT Gladden/everyone,

I am a midgrade naval officer that owns a San Diego condo that is deeply, laughably upside down.   

Quick stats:

• Bought the condo in mid-2004 for $430K (first real estate purchase)
• Touted as a "great investment" by retired Admirals, and several peers who were real estate savvy
• PCS'd two years later
• Forced into a refi with less than optimal terms (6.75 interest only/8.75 HELOC) (80/20)
• Renting out the condo for roughly a 50% loss (lose approx 1300 month, even with tax breaks figured in)
• Losing $15K year/$75K every five years

The condo is worth $290K now.  That is $140K upside down.  

I have tried:

• Loan mod (Wells was highly incompetent and uncooperative)
• Any option from SVRA
• Homeowners Assistance Program (PCS'd six months too early)
• Any refi option

This loan is scheduled to mature in 2013.  Yes, that is 3.5 years down the road, but it is highly unlikely that the market will a) rise to anywhere close to what I bought it for or b) that I will live in San Diego to qualify it as a primary residence (for a reasonable interest rate should I be able to refi).

I have no renter in the condo and am now eating into my savings.  This forum has spoken to the ethics of walking away.  Even if that was a consideration, I am deeply concerned I could wreck my career with the TS+ clearance it requires. 

So, I suppose I intend to rent the place out, effectively "paying" for my clearance at a rate of $1500 a month so I do not foreclose.

SO- two questions:

-Has anyone out there been able to maintain their clearance following their foreclosure?

-Should I continue to rent out my condo at an amazing loss until the inevitable 2013 adjustment of my mortgage?

-Is there any update/amendment on security clearance rules given the current financial crisis?

-Is there any potential amendment to the HAP program for the hard PCS date to before Feb 2006?

This is all very unpleasant.  Thanks for listening and keep fighting the good fight.

-UW