We have now had a better chance to evaluate what we think is the final language in the stimulus package. Will it help? Undoubtedly it will help some, but as we noted before there are huge loopholes that will leave too many Military Families without assistance. Here they are as we see them:

1. If you bought on or after July 2nd, 2006, you will not be "in the window" for assistance.

2. If you bought before July 1, 2006, but subsequently received PCS orders and chose to rent because you couldn't sell before this program was announced, since the home is no longer your "primary residence" you will apparently will receive no aid. We believe this will eliminate a huge number of Military Families from assistaance.

3. While it isn't totally clear at this point, the act may also restrict assistance to those with single family or duplexes. The language we read would likely eliminate those who purchased townhomes of condos. If we find out this is in error, we will update as soon as possible.

4. If you meet all other criteria and sold your house at a loss, you apparently would receive reimbursement at 95% of the "fair market value" as determined by the service secretary. The basis for this valuation isn't clear and even a 5% loss can be a substantial hit.

5. Likewise, if you meet all other criteria and can't sell your house and DOD buys it, they will pay only 90% of "fair market value," (again, what does that mean?) which again can still be a lot of money out pocket.

We are happy to have other comments or interpretations of this the bill and will update as we get info.

Joe Gladden

What if you have no other choice but to rent and still pulling excessive amounts of money to even maintain the residence.

On the surface, it sounds great. It sounds like a nice way to convince everyone that Mr. Obama is really taking care of military families. Seems they've managed to restrict it so much that it will actually help only a very few people.

CJ

I am interested in how you came up with interpretation for number two. Do you have the exact verbiage or is up to the Army Corp or Engineers who will be administering the program to determine? What I have seen in other articles is that you will have to provide a deed and a copy of a utility bill to prove that the home was your primary residence.

Thank you.

VR SAM responding to Steak:

Our point precisely. The "stimulus package" housing assistance for Military Families simply eliminates those who may be in the window (ie. purchased before July 1, 2006), but who have already had to rent the house out, taking a serious negative cash flow, before the stimulus package was passed. Thus, the house is no longer their "primary residence." This should have been obvious to anyone who gave a second's worth of thought to this. I believe that they simply cut / pasted the language from the previous BRAC housing assistance bill...and called it a day! I believe this will eliminate a lot of Military Families from any assistance.

VR SAM Joe Gladden

VR SAM responding to CJ:

Agree 100%!

Joe VR SAM

Responding to Guest:

I have seen the final chopped up draft that came out before the final version, so no, I haven't seen the final language. That was the reason for my caveat. If you have later / more detailed info, would be grateful for you to post. I would be very happy to be wrong on this issue and appreciate any info you have.

Generally, these type policies can have a dramatic change from what was intended to what is implemented, which will be left to the service secretaries.

Again, please add whatever info and sources you may have.

VR SAM Joe

“If we do get a law change, we will give last-minute instructions on what else they need,” said Don Chapman, Corps of Engineers assistant program manager for the Homeowners Assistance Program.

Among other things, homeowners will need a copy of their deed and a utility bill to prove that the home was their primary residence. He said homeowners can apply now, and the Corps will hold onto the application.

This is really all I have. This excerpt was from an article in the Air Force Times and I believe I have seen the same quote in a few other articles.

I completely agree that these things never end up as they start. I guess we just need to watch the HAP website.

Thank you for the all the information provided during the process. Your forum is has been very helpful.

When we talk about the 'primary residence' are we speaking of the active duty member or the family members or both? My Husband transferred Sept. 2008 and we have been trying to sell since July 08'. We have reduced the price of home to break even with Realtor fees etc. If we go any lower we will pay out of pocket. My husband has been renting since he was transferred because there wasn't bachelor quarters available. We have accumulated a credit card debt of $3,000 so far in renter's fees. Not to mention utilities, gas for him to travel 8 hours to come home on a weekend and other expenses that come with living away from home. He can retire Dec. 2010 but that would mean that he will lived apart from his spouse and 4 children for more than 2 years. I have looked into hardship transfers for military but they only seem to apply for medical situations. What else can we do. Can the Stimulus Plan help us? If so, who do we contact? If not, is there hope in any other way?63

Based on my conversation with a very guarded, non-commital Corps employee, my "best guess" is that you will qualify as "primary residence." However, until the corps of engineers fully staff this issue, no on knows.

The link below is to the Corps' web site specific to the HAP. They indicate that it will update as policy is formed.

http://www.sas.usace.army.mil/hapinv/index.html

Finally, even if you meet the criteria, don't expect this to be a cure all. The level of reimbursement for a home you can't sell may be very disappointing depending on the appraised amount. We strongly encourage you to write your Congressmen and tell them this bill didn't fix the military problem. See pre-written letters w/ addresses on: www.moresam.net

Please keep us up to date! Joe

Joe,

What if you had to rent the house out prior to the bill being introduced however, move back into it and then apply for assistance? We left it August of 08 and the lease expires in August 09.

This is very unfortunate for those who closed on their homes, as we did in Sep 08. We will get no help at all. We had to PCS in December and we still have to pay the mortgage and rent at our new location until someone buys. It is very hard on many families in the same situation. Mr. Obama's band-aid for some who qualify isn't going to totally help and for others they don't even get the band-aid! But soldiers will still fight for their country, continue to smile and leave their families behind to deal with it, because that's what they have to do.

Apologize for the late response. That's a good question that wasn't determined when I spoke with the Corps folks. In Realtor and tax language, primary home means you are living there, which of course would leave out most of those folks who had to rent and move on prior to the legislation. However, the Corps rep indicated that in the past BRAC HAPs, folks were still elgible even though they weren't currently living in the home and had rented it out. I think that is to be determined.

Joe

Again, sorry for the late response. I agree completely and understand your frustration. I also believe Congress should shoulder the primary responsibility for this and strongly encourage you to write, call...then write call again, until it gets fixed. If enough folks do this consistently, we will get action.

Here's the easy way to do it. www.moresam.net and click the blue bubble.

Joe

Our situation falls into the "window" as we purchased March of 2006. My husband PCS'd 2 weeks ago. The 6 kids and I have stayed behind with the house.

From conversations I have had with th ACE personnel, rather than buying our home from us, they will "acquire" it from the lender. As we are upside down by 50k it is a relief. We are chalking the 30k we will have wasted on this house as life? I am still hoping this will help us.

To "praying this works":

We also fall within the window and bought at the peak of this mess of a housing market. We are 150K upside down. The way I understand it is as you write it: that they will "acquire" your mortgage from the lender.

However, this will no doubt cause issues for those of us who have made extra payments (while DH was deployed we poured all we could into this house so we could refinance... prior to stimulus bill provision) or those who put money down in the first place. If it just entails the ACE paying off the mortgage, if you put 10% down, that money is simply gone. Whereas if you didn't put anything down and the govt takes over your mortgage, you walk away with a much smaller loss. Seems to me they will "punish" those who put money down or made extra payments if they simply pay off your remaining balance. Hmmmm....

Either way, it stresses me greatly that the HAP folks have not established guidance and policy on this. Clearly, the longer they wait, the more military families suffer. We're also coming up on the busy summer PCSes, so it would be great if they'd hurry this along a bit.

Couldn't agree more. I knew it would take some time to hash out the policy, but can't understand the length of this delay. Of course, one only had to read the actual language to know that it was so poorly written that confusion was inevitable. Hang in there. Joe

FYI:

http://hap.usace.army.mil/Documents/DOD_Guidance.pdf

At this point we're trying to contact HAP to see how exactly people who sell their homes for a 150K loss come to closing... Do we have to bring that amount to closing and then get reimbursed by HAP in 90-120 dayshuh! Urgh. We paid over 240K for a home that is now marketable at 95K. We owe 220K. If you do the math, and I'm sure others in this market are in similar situations, coming to closing with the difference is not feasible.

The Army Corps buying from the lender is a new twist to me. I would certainly appreciate discussing this with you to see if there is something we have missed and to get the details so we can get it out to others. It could be that the program is finally coming into focus, but that would be a new angle. My big question is if they buy from the lender, does that presume that it has foreclosed first? Have they discussed any credit implications on this version of the program?

If you have time for a call, 703 754-3036. Thanks. Joe

Hey, Joe.

We're still trying to contact HAP to see what's what. They don't answer, but rather "leave a message and we'll call you back." Urgh. So, as soon as we get some more insight into how this works, I will let you (and others know). My husband and I have gone round and round this issue and the various scenarios and "what ifs". We're driving ourselves crazy with it all. Until we get some more "guidance" and "policy" and more importantly, implementation rules, its all futile. Will keep you posted as soon as we find anything out. In the meantime, if anyone else finds any info out on this, would be GREAT to hear from you. Thanks! smiley